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TOPIC: Square one 13740 Views

Re: Square one 15 Oct 2021 17:09 #373328

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Dear Looking to improve,

Your post is so full of honesty & Tzidkus. Looking back at my years as a Bochur I very much relate to your point. On the one hand you have an extremely valid point, but on the other hand you don't want this nisoyan just to be placed on a back burner.

My simple advice is to constantly touch base with a Chaver/patner/mentor or Rebbe. That way your'e not lurking around the forum all day. A personal Chaver also is focused on your personal needs regarding this difficult nisoyan. This has proven tremendously effective for so many.

One last point, and I know you know this, but I can't help not to say it again. You have no idea how much of a nachas ruach it is to HKBH that youv'e put so much effort into this battle. one day you will smile when you see it's value. As long as your fighting, your building your whole future. Your a true inspiration and example to many. 

Have a fabulous Shabbos,

With admiration,
Excellence

Re: Square one 15 Oct 2021 17:27 #373331

Looking_to_improve wrote on 15 Oct 2021 16:44:
I'm still here, I haven't gone anywhere. I kind of lost the patience and desire to post, but I'm still lurking on the forum pretty much every day, so although it feels like I'm not here, I kind of am. 
I'm masturbating maybe 1-2 times a week at the moment, but I think I've improved a bit with shmiras einam, I haven't watched porn or similar in a few week.


Last point for now is that I'm starting to doubt if it's healthy for me to hang around reading all the posts here. I spend enough time in my day with sexual thoughts, I don't think obsessing over it by reading people recounts of their day, only in their struggles of this area is a healthy balance. I don't read about others recap about their avidas Hashem throughout the day, so focussing on this seems to not be healthy. (Not in a triggering way, but just a bad obsession) imagine I struggled with shmiras shabbos, I wouldn't obsess about it all week with an online forum.

Good shabbos for nowLTI 
:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!

Don't make the mistake of thinking that by masturbating without p. you're not hurting anybody. You're hurting yourself because you know that your friends and family don't know who you really are deep down. You may pay the price eventually.

Re: Square one 15 Oct 2021 20:39 #373333

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Looking_to_improve wrote on 15 Oct 2021 16:44:
I'm still here, I haven't gone anywhere. I kind of lost the patience and desire to post, but I'm still lurking on the forum pretty much every day, so although it feels like I'm not here, I kind of am. 
I'm masturbating maybe 1-2 times a week at the moment, but I think I've improved a bit with shmiras einam, I haven't watched porn or similar in a few week.


Last point for now is that I'm starting to doubt if it's healthy for me to hang around reading all the posts here. I spend enough time in my day with sexual thoughts, I don't think obsessing over it by reading people recounts of their day, only in their struggles of this area is a healthy balance. I don't read about others recap about their avidas Hashem throughout the day, so focussing on this seems to not be healthy. (Not in a triggering way, but just a bad obsession) imagine I struggled with shmiras shabbos, I wouldn't obsess about it all week with an online forum.

Good shabbos for nowLTI 
:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!

This is very true for some people. I significantly reduced my time on the forums when I started going to the SMART meetings.
It may be true for you also, just always have that one person who you are always committed to. It could be a mentor or Rebbe that knows your situation or a therapist. But don't go through it alone. 
נאָך אַ שריפה ווערט מען רייַך - After a fire one becomes wealthy.

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Re: Square one 16 Oct 2021 18:39 #373339

anonymous.lost.everything wrote on 15 Oct 2021 17:27:

Looking_to_improve wrote on 15 Oct 2021 16:44:
I'm still here, I haven't gone anywhere. I kind of lost the patience and desire to post, but I'm still lurking on the forum pretty much every day, so although it feels like I'm not here, I kind of am. 
I'm masturbating maybe 1-2 times a week at the moment, but I think I've improved a bit with shmiras einam, I haven't watched porn or similar in a few week.


Last point for now is that I'm starting to doubt if it's healthy for me to hang around reading all the posts here. I spend enough time in my day with sexual thoughts, I don't think obsessing over it by reading people recounts of their day, only in their struggles of this area is a healthy balance. I don't read about others recap about their avidas Hashem throughout the day, so focussing on this seems to not be healthy. (Not in a triggering way, but just a bad obsession) imagine I struggled with shmiras shabbos, I wouldn't obsess about it all week with an online forum.

Good shabbos for nowLTI 
:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!

Don't make the mistake of thinking that by masturbating without p. you're not hurting anybody. You're hurting yourself because you know that your friends and family don't know who you really are deep down. You may pay the price eventually.

Yeah, completely agree, didn't mean to make it seem like where I'm holding is acceptable

Re: Square one 17 Oct 2021 11:37 #373351

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anonymous.lost.everything wrote on 15 Oct 2021 17:27:

Looking_to_improve wrote on 15 Oct 2021 16:44:
I'm still here, I haven't gone anywhere. I kind of lost the patience and desire to post, but I'm still lurking on the forum pretty much every day, so although it feels like I'm not here, I kind of am. 
I'm masturbating maybe 1-2 times a week at the moment, but I think I've improved a bit with shmiras einam, I haven't watched porn or similar in a few week.


Last point for now is that I'm starting to doubt if it's healthy for me to hang around reading all the posts here. I spend enough time in my day with sexual thoughts, I don't think obsessing over it by reading people recounts of their day, only in their struggles of this area is a healthy balance. I don't read about others recap about their avidas Hashem throughout the day, so focussing on this seems to not be healthy. (Not in a triggering way, but just a bad obsession) imagine I struggled with shmiras shabbos, I wouldn't obsess about it all week with an online forum.

Good shabbos for nowLTI 
:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!

Don't make the mistake of thinking that by masturbating without p. you're not hurting anybody. You're hurting yourself because you know that your friends and family don't know who you really are deep down. You may pay the price eventually.

Of course best is to stop watching and masturbating, but some guys find it easier to divide the two being that masturbation has been their habitual soother for so long, and they can't imagine staying calm or falling asleep without it. Of course that is a mistaken thought, but some guys need to divide the battle.

If someone stops watching pornography, even if he is still masturbating, it is a great accomplishment. Practically, if a wife catches her husband watching other women, she views it as being cheated on. Masturbation may be revolting to her, but she does not get crushed by it; it has much lest potential in rach"l destroying a marriage. More important - stopping to watch pornography helps rewire the brain to not objectify women. A bochur preparing to get married MUST retrain himself why Hashem put women and sexuality in this world. It is an emergency for a single guy (kal v'chomer married guys) to stop watching this poison asap. And obviously once someone stops watching, it becomes that much easier to stop masturbating.... 
Feel free to contact me at michelgelner@gmail.com

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Re: Square one 17 Oct 2021 14:08 #373354

Hashem Help Me wrote on 17 Oct 2021 11:37:

anonymous.lost.everything wrote on 15 Oct 2021 17:27:

Looking_to_improve wrote on 15 Oct 2021 16:44:
I'm still here, I haven't gone anywhere. I kind of lost the patience and desire to post, but I'm still lurking on the forum pretty much every day, so although it feels like I'm not here, I kind of am. 
I'm masturbating maybe 1-2 times a week at the moment, but I think I've improved a bit with shmiras einam, I haven't watched porn or similar in a few week.


Last point for now is that I'm starting to doubt if it's healthy for me to hang around reading all the posts here. I spend enough time in my day with sexual thoughts, I don't think obsessing over it by reading people recounts of their day, only in their struggles of this area is a healthy balance. I don't read about others recap about their avidas Hashem throughout the day, so focussing on this seems to not be healthy. (Not in a triggering way, but just a bad obsession) imagine I struggled with shmiras shabbos, I wouldn't obsess about it all week with an online forum.

Good shabbos for nowLTI 
:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!

Don't make the mistake of thinking that by masturbating without p. you're not hurting anybody. You're hurting yourself because you know that your friends and family don't know who you really are deep down. You may pay the price eventually.

Of course best is to stop watching and masturbating, but some guys find it easier to divide the two being that masturbation has been their habitual soother for so long, and they can't imagine staying calm or falling asleep without it. Of course that is a mistaken thought, but some guys need to divide the battle.

If someone stops watching pornography, even if he is still masturbating, it is a great accomplishment. Practically, if a wife catches her husband watching other women, she views it as being cheated on. Masturbation may be revolting to her, but she does not get crushed by it; it has much lest potential in rach"l destroying a marriage. More important - stopping to watch pornography helps rewire the brain to not objectify women. A bochur preparing to get married MUST retrain himself why Hashem put women and sexuality in this world. It is an emergency for a single guy (kal v'chomer married guys) to stop watching this poison asap. And obviously once someone stops watching, it becomes that much easier to stop masturbating.... 

Yes, I completely agree. I see now that my post might have given the impression that I was discounting the progress made by giving up p.

I was just saying that stopping with a gun pointed at your head may not solve the root cause, in extreme cases, and therefore after giving up p. by whatever means, to continue to strive for even greater mental health. But always recognize the progress made and be patient.

Re: Square one 24 Nov 2021 00:22 #374538

Needed to get this thought off my chest. (I don't need welcome backs, I check the forums daily)

I've been davening for someone else recently, and BH today my tefilos were answered. (Obviously we can never reciprocate anything to Hashem for all that he does for us), but I feel a big sense of busha when I'm omed lifnei hashchina while still acting out regularly. How can I come with requests and be answered when I'm in this state? Is this how I going to act when I'm being answered? As much as I might think I want to fulfill Hashem's desire and stay down, clearly I'm failing miserably if I'm constantly acting out. As much as I would like to say that deep down I want to be clean, how true can it really be if I'm incapable of realising that goal and desire.
(This point doesn't end smoothly here, but I don't really know what else to say for now)

Re: Square one 24 Nov 2021 13:33 #374549

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I am so inspired when reading through your posts. Keep on fighting and most importantly keep on davening. Don't let yourself fall into the trap of feeling down and not davening, Tefillah is our home base, its the roots from which we grow. B'Ezras Hashem I have no doubt you will look back in the future and see how far you have come.. Hold onto that dream of kedusha and B'Ezras Hashem you will live it. You should also be proud of yourself, proud of how you are fighting, continuing to try even though its so difficult. It gives me tremendous chizuk to read your posts.

May Hashem give you extra chizuk and Kochos to fight this battle and may you be Zocher to overcome this incredible challenge

Re: Square one 04 Jan 2022 16:59 #375507

Hey how’ve you been?
“Distancing and removing triggers is only bringing the door closer..Changing the insides and our nature is the key to get in.” 

“Human connection can help every sort of struggle” 

If anyone would like to reach me I’d love to help out! 
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Break free the easy way using the self-talk method!
https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/378128-Captain--Shtarkemotionals-Secret90Day-Challenge

Check out this thread with packed Insight for every person at every stage! 
https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/1-Break-Free/376994-%E2%80%9CShtark%E2%80%9D-insight-that-may-make-you-%E2%80%9Cemotional%E2%80%9D-%29

Re: Square one 28 Mar 2022 21:57 #379241

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Looking_to_improve wrote on 24 Nov 2021 00:22:
Needed to get this thought off my chest. (I don't need welcome backs, I check the forums daily)

I've been davening for someone else recently, and BH today my tefilos were answered. (Obviously we can never reciprocate anything to Hashem for all that he does for us), but I feel a big sense of busha when I'm omed lifnei hashchina while still acting out regularly. How can I come with requests and be answered when I'm in this state? Is this how I going to act when I'm being answered? As much as I might think I want to fulfill Hashem's desire and stay down, clearly I'm failing miserably if I'm constantly acting out. As much as I would like to say that deep down I want to be clean, how true can it really be if I'm incapable of realising that goal and desire.
(This point doesn't end smoothly here, but I don't really know what else to say for now)

It’s been awhile, but I’ll try giving a haarah.
We don’t deserve anything regardless of our actions, as Hashem is infinite, gives us everything etc etc.
The distance between 100 and infinity is the same as between 1 and infinity.
So too, just like a tzadik has no right, b’eztem, to approach GD, one who isn’t doing well is the exact same.
And just like Hashem wants a tzadik to approach Him, so too He wants us to.

In your second point you question how can it be that ones actions don’t align with their will, and that if they act a certain way then it must be that’s their exclusive ratzon.
Think of when a person gets angry and says something hurtful to a friend and after the fact he feels bad about it.
How could that be? If he feels bad about it then it must be he didn’t want to say that, so why then did he say that?
Answer is because he was angry.
Same here.

What we experience when angry, filled with taiva etc, is the cognitive dissidence Chazal refer to as the Ruach Shtus that causes one to sin.
Last Edit: 28 Mar 2022 22:03 by YeshivaGuy.

Re: Square one 29 Mar 2022 00:32 #379254

YeshivaGuy wrote on 28 Mar 2022 21:57:

Looking_to_improve wrote on 24 Nov 2021 00:22:
Needed to get this thought off my chest. (I don't need welcome backs, I check the forums daily)

I've been davening for someone else recently, and BH today my tefilos were answered. (Obviously we can never reciprocate anything to Hashem for all that he does for us), but I feel a big sense of busha when I'm omed lifnei hashchina while still acting out regularly. How can I come with requests and be answered when I'm in this state? Is this how I going to act when I'm being answered? As much as I might think I want to fulfill Hashem's desire and stay down, clearly I'm failing miserably if I'm constantly acting out. As much as I would like to say that deep down I want to be clean, how true can it really be if I'm incapable of realising that goal and desire.
(This point doesn't end smoothly here, but I don't really know what else to say for now)

It’s been awhile, but I’ll try giving a haarah.
We don’t deserve anything regardless of our actions, as Hashem is infinite, gives us everything etc etc.
The distance between 100 and infinity is the same as between 1 and infinity.
So too, just like a tzadik has no right, b’eztem, to approach GD, one who isn’t doing well is the exact same.
And just like Hashem wants a tzadik to approach Him, so too He wants us to.

This is an idea I heard, and I have kind of extended it for myself to the rest of davening:When I'm saying השיבה, do I really feel a sense of יגון ואנחה at the fact there's no Sanhedrin, no arba misas bes din? Do I personally miss the korbanos, do the degree that I feel sorrow that we don't have them?
No, but despite that, I daven for it. This is what the anshei kneses hagedolah decided that we need to know Hashem wants in his world, even if I might not. Despite it not being my will, I'll daven for it because it is yours. עשה רצונו כרצונך.

Even on the things I relate to more, I still view them through this prism when I daven. But even with that mindset, it doesn't mean I feel genuine when davening for a personal request. Am I davening to the creator of the world, or just his hand that feeds me.

If I'm following in his ways, then I'll be more comfortable asking for my personal requests, but while I'm not, I'm not going to come with a shopping list and pretend our relationship is on the terms that I want it to be.


In your second point you question how can it be that ones actions don’t align with their will, and that if they act a certain way then it must be that’s their exclusive ratzon.
Think of when a person gets angry and says something hurtful to a friend and after the fact he feels bad about it.
How could that be? If he feels bad about it then it must be he didn’t want to say that, so why then did he say that?
Answer is because he was angry.
Same here.

What we experience when angry, filled with taiva etc, is the cognitive dissidence Chazal refer to as the Ruach Shtus that causes one to sin.

It doesn't feel like a temporary ruach shtus when I act out like I have a heter to do so. 
:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!
Also, what do you mean "causes one to sin"?

Re: Square one 29 Mar 2022 01:42 #379258

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I believe that the answer is to focus on the positive things you are doing. There are so many parts of your life that are 100% dedicated to hashem and mitzvos. It is helpful to focus on those. That does not mean that we’re keeping a scorecard But it does often mean that we are much more dedicated than we realize.

We tend to gravitate towards the things we are doing wrong and think that those things paint the whole picture. The truth is that Hashem loves us with all our flaws and even if we are “acting out”. We were not made perfect and life is a journey.

If someone has a child who Chas veshalom was not keeping mitzvos properly The father would still want to have any connection possible with the child. If that child was sick the father would do anything in his power to heal the child. It is even more so with our father in heaven he wants our connection and wants to do for us. The love is always there.

Of course hashem would also want us to stop “acting out” but that is a work in progress in the journey of life. Meanwhile every connection is meaningful to hashem and davening sincerely for things that you need are a very big part of that connection.
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Re: Square one 29 Mar 2022 04:35 #379274

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Looking_to_improve wrote on 29 Mar 2022 00:32:

YeshivaGuy wrote on 28 Mar 2022 21:57:

Looking_to_improve wrote on 24 Nov 2021 00:22:
Needed to get this thought off my chest. (I don't need welcome backs, I check the forums daily)

I've been davening for someone else recently, and BH today my tefilos were answered. (Obviously we can never reciprocate anything to Hashem for all that he does for us), but I feel a big sense of busha when I'm omed lifnei hashchina while still acting out regularly. How can I come with requests and be answered when I'm in this state? Is this how I going to act when I'm being answered? As much as I might think I want to fulfill Hashem's desire and stay down, clearly I'm failing miserably if I'm constantly acting out. As much as I would like to say that deep down I want to be clean, how true can it really be if I'm incapable of realising that goal and desire.
(This point doesn't end smoothly here, but I don't really know what else to say for now)

It’s been awhile, but I’ll try giving a haarah.
We don’t deserve anything regardless of our actions, as Hashem is infinite, gives us everything etc etc.
The distance between 100 and infinity is the same as between 1 and infinity.
So too, just like a tzadik has no right, b’eztem, to approach GD, one who isn’t doing well is the exact same.
And just like Hashem wants a tzadik to approach Him, so too He wants us to.

This is an idea I heard, and I have kind of extended it for myself to the rest of davening:When I'm saying השיבה, do I really feel a sense of יגון ואנחה at the fact there's no Sanhedrin, no arba misas bes din? Do I personally miss the korbanos, do the degree that I feel sorrow that we don't have them?
No, but despite that, I daven for it. This is what the anshei kneses hagedolah decided that we need to know Hashem wants in his world, even if I might not. Despite it not being my will, I'll daven for it because it is yours. עשה רצונו כרצונך.

Even on the things I relate to more, I still view them through this prism when I daven. But even with that mindset, it doesn't mean I feel genuine when davening for a personal request. Am I davening to the creator of the world, or just his hand that feeds me.

If I'm following in his ways, then I'll be more comfortable asking for my personal requests, but while I'm not, I'm not going to come with a shopping list and pretend our relationship is on the terms that I want it to be.


In your second point you question how can it be that ones actions don’t align with their will, and that if they act a certain way then it must be that’s their exclusive ratzon.
Think of when a person gets angry and says something hurtful to a friend and after the fact he feels bad about it.
How could that be? If he feels bad about it then it must be he didn’t want to say that, so why then did he say that?
Answer is because he was angry.
Same here.

What we experience when angry, filled with taiva etc, is the cognitive dissidence Chazal refer to as the Ruach Shtus that causes one to sin.

It doesn't feel like a temporary ruach shtus when I act out like I have a heter to do so. 
:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!
Also, what do you mean "causes one to sin"?

Your point of davening to Hashem Himself versus His hand that feeds you is very profound.
Perhaps it would help, and I’m wondering for myself as well, to concentrate on the word אתה in davening. 
That word has always fascinated me, my Rebbi once shtelled on it one Friday night. Speaking to Hashem directly and having the audacity to refer to the Melech as You…

As far as the Ruach Shtus “causing one to sin.”
My answer is that I don’t know. 
On the one hand that’s how it sounds from the chazal (I think maseches sota around daf gimel?), and in Yom Kippur davening we declare how the entire Klall Yisrael was “Meshuga” (or b’shgaga) when doing aveiros and should be forgiven etc.
But l’maaseh we believe in bechira and schar v’onesh.
Its a difficult paradox. One that I do not yet fully grasp.
Thanks for bringing it to my attention, it’s something to work through.
Last Edit: 29 Mar 2022 14:23 by YeshivaGuy.

Re: Square one 30 May 2022 21:02 #381363

Over a week clean from m and p for the first time in a while, no major struggles or battles to report of

Re: Square one 31 May 2022 06:43 #381381

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@looking to improve.

So good to hear from you again. 

Well done on you're achievement!! 
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