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TOPIC: OivedElokim-I’ll never give up 14087 Views

Re: OivedElokim-I’ll never give up 18 May 2022 05:36 #380860

  • wilnevergiveup
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YeshivaGuy wrote on 18 May 2022 04:30:

Ish MiGrodno wrote on 17 May 2022 06:17:
Rabbeinu O.E. Shlit"a,

Are you able to clearly articulate why quitting masturbation is so much more difficult than porn? As you conceptualize the differences between P&M (e.g., the differing functions that they serve in addressing your anxiety, etc.), as well as some similarities and overlapping areas, perhaps you may find the ability to apply success from one area into the other.

(My apologies if I sound overly analytical, but what I'm trying to get at is that introspection - especially through journaling - may help you take it to a whole next level)

On a personal level, I spent decades falling, while remaining pathetically clueless regarding how P&M were a cyclical tag team to dull my anxiety. After HHM taught me that yetzer has been perennially tricking me, my life very quickly changed for the better B"H!

img

My experience has been that Masterbating is far harder to stop than Porn.
The reason for myself and I suspect for others as well, is because I can separate from the internet but I can’t separate myself from my own self.

Additionaly, I’ve found that p’gam habris leaves me feeling fundamentally broken, whereas being nichshal in shmiras eynayim feels like an external force has been brought into me and contaminated me.
So pgam habris is a p’gam “meenay u’bay.”

Conversely, the taiva for masterbating is the taiva for Me  to do something, to send from my very guf (sorry for the graphic), it stems from within myself.
Whereas the taiva for pornography is the ratzon to be מכניס something that is b’etzem חיצוני, outside of my Self, and to bring it into my domain.

Maybe this is why it’s called Yesod, but
אין לי עסק בנסתרות.

Just some haaros on the topic.

YeahivaGuy

Hey @YeshivaGuy, this all may be true but this is waaaaaaay too deep even for a deep guy like me. 

Masturbating is hard because we can't put a filter on it. Simple. 

If we can work on making internal gedarim then we can put a filter on our bodies and minds also. 

Just my opinion.
Check out My Thread and The Truth

(עשה רצונו כרצונך (אבות,ב:ד

Feel free to email me  wilnevergiveupgye@gmail.com

Re: OivedElokim-I’ll never give up 18 May 2022 21:36 #380879

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wilnevergiveup wrote on 18 May 2022 05:36:

YeshivaGuy wrote on 18 May 2022 04:30:

Ish MiGrodno wrote on 17 May 2022 06:17:
Rabbeinu O.E. Shlit"a,

Are you able to clearly articulate why quitting masturbation is so much more difficult than porn? As you conceptualize the differences between P&M (e.g., the differing functions that they serve in addressing your anxiety, etc.), as well as some similarities and overlapping areas, perhaps you may find the ability to apply success from one area into the other.

(My apologies if I sound overly analytical, but what I'm trying to get at is that introspection - especially through journaling - may help you take it to a whole next level)

On a personal level, I spent decades falling, while remaining pathetically clueless regarding how P&M were a cyclical tag team to dull my anxiety. After HHM taught me that yetzer has been perennially tricking me, my life very quickly changed for the better B"H!

img

My experience has been that Masterbating is far harder to stop than Porn.
The reason for myself and I suspect for others as well, is because I can separate from the internet but I can’t separate myself from my own self.

Additionaly, I’ve found that p’gam habris leaves me feeling fundamentally broken, whereas being nichshal in shmiras eynayim feels like an external force has been brought into me and contaminated me.
So pgam habris is a p’gam “meenay u’bay.”

Conversely, the taiva for masterbating is the taiva for Me  to do something, to send from my very guf (sorry for the graphic), it stems from within myself.
Whereas the taiva for pornography is the ratzon to be מכניס something that is b’etzem חיצוני, outside of my Self, and to bring it into my domain.

Maybe this is why it’s called Yesod, but
אין לי עסק בנסתרות.

Just some haaros on the topic.

YeahivaGuy

Hey @YeshivaGuy, this all may be true but this is waaaaaaay too deep even for a deep guy like me. 

Masturbating is hard because we can't put a filter on it. Simple. 

If we can work on making internal gedarim then we can put a filter on our bodies and minds also. 

Just my opinion.

Thanks for the feedback.
I don’t see what’s so perplexing about what I said.
I said no kabola etc, just an observation. But it doesn’t matter, one should go with what resonates with them.

I would appreciate to understand what you mean by a filter on one’s body/mind though.
It seems poshut that you can’t “filter out” sexual desire or the feeling of anxiety etc which leads one to masterbate.
You can however, take those emotions and express them in a different way, a healthy way.
This is fundamentally different than internet where you can almost “cut out” the treifus with a filter.

I’d love to hear your critiques, comments, and haaros.

YeshivaGuy

Re: OivedElokim-I’ll never give up 19 May 2022 04:16 #380894

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@YeshivaGuy, I sent you an email.
Check out My Thread and The Truth

(עשה רצונו כרצונך (אבות,ב:ד

Feel free to email me  wilnevergiveupgye@gmail.com

Re: OivedElokim-I’ll never give up 19 May 2022 05:17 #380896

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wilnevergiveup wrote on 19 May 2022 04:16:
@YeshivaGuy, I sent you an email.

Thanks! 
I responded

Re: OivedElokim-I’ll never give up 19 May 2022 05:34 #380898

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Ish MiGrodno wrote on 17 May 2022 06:17:
Rabbeinu O.E. Shlit"a,

Are you able to clearly articulate why quitting masturbation is so much more difficult than porn? As you conceptualize the differences between P&M (e.g., the differing functions that they serve in addressing your anxiety, etc.), as well as some similarities and overlapping areas, perhaps you may find the ability to apply success from one area into the other.

(My apologies if I sound overly analytical, but what I'm trying to get at is that introspection - especially through journaling - may help you take it to a whole next level)

On a personal level, I spent decades falling, while remaining pathetically clueless regarding how P&M were a cyclical tag team to dull my anxiety. After HHM taught me that yetzer has been perennially tricking me, my life very quickly changed for the better B"H!

img

Thank you for your thoughtful post. Pardon me for the delayed response.

I generally tend to agree with the sentiments expressed by YG an WNGU-Mastubration is very tough to quit simply because you can't put a filter on your body, and once you teach yourself to use mastubration as a way to deal with stress, tension, boredom and plain old tayva, it's a very hard thing to unlearn. I'm sure it's possible-plenty of our friends here can attest to that- but I haven't found success in it yet.

I suspect the key might be having a replacement habit prepared for when the urge arises, but frankly it hasn't worked for me yet. In the moment I just forget/disregard any plans I may have made and go ahead with "it".

Anyways I really appreciate you and all the others for taking an interest in and following my journey. It really means a lot.
For the background to my name- see Tanya פרק טו.
My old thread
My current thread 
Last Edit: 19 May 2022 05:34 by OivedElokim.

Re: OivedElokim-I’ll never give up 19 May 2022 06:33 #380904

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I think the idea that @IMG is suggesting is to track your triggers and see that often, the triggers are the same for both P&M. When you realize that, you can focus on the trigger instead of the symptom. (@IMG, correct me if I am wrong)

I agree, but for some of us, myself included, I've been doing this for a while, know all my triggers, but still cannot effectively deal with them. Therefore, masturbating can become the go to because it's so easy, porn on the other hand takes much more planning at this stage. There are tools for dealing with these negative emotions, check out the F2F program, there is a whole chapter on this and it's really great. 

If what the F2F has to offer is not enough, therapy might be something to look into.
Check out My Thread and The Truth

(עשה רצונו כרצונך (אבות,ב:ד

Feel free to email me  wilnevergiveupgye@gmail.com

Re: OivedElokim-I’ll never give up 19 May 2022 11:29 #380914

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The difference is obvious - We are not connected to the computer, but we are connected to our penises. In addition often we wake up from sleep or from being spaced out with the process already started...

A comment about this subject - Guys who started masturbating at young ages often never learned how to accept emotions and regulate them. A young boy who is bored, lonely, sad, frustrated, etc, needs to learn that no-one ever died from these things and one has to learn how to accept those feelings and move on with their day. However, if at a young age one was introduced to the mind numbing medicine of masturbation - and especially if pornography is part of the picture - causing deep focused fantasizing - the kid never learned how to deal with feelings. For the rest of his life he uses masturbation coupled with fantasizing (or actual watching) as his pacifier. To break that habit is really rough, because as soon as he feels an uncomfortable emotion, he subconsciously starts causing an erection and his hands move down there to find relief.  The eitzah is to practice feeling an emotion, processing it by simply sharing with a friend - "today i am in a bad mood because this and this happened", "i got yelled at and feel rejected", or similar conversations which allow one to recognize that something is bothering him - and learn how to face it. Secondly, learning to use healthy pacifiers like exercise, which take time and effort, is a real game changer as well. 

Hatzlocha to all!
Feel free to contact me at michelgelner@gmail.com

My threads: Lessons Learned: guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/335248-Lessons-Learned

                    My Story and G-d Bless GYE: guardyoureyes.com/forum/17-Balei-Battims-Forum/303036-My-story-and-G-d-bless-GYE

Re: OivedElokim-I’ll never give up 20 May 2022 03:52 #380962

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Maybe im the odd one out here, but if I don't watch porn, I don't masturbate.

On another note. From what ive seen, those who are successful in cutting out porn do so with the help of filters, though mostly its internal work, because if you really want it, you will find it.
My Thread:The Road To Being Honest With Myself (and others:)

My other Thread: My Daily Inspiration

I'm not a slow learner, I'm just quick to forget" - Eli Nash

A bit of honesty and less over confidence might help me - Imperfection

Re: OivedElokim-I’ll never give up 20 May 2022 15:38 #380992

I haven’t read all the posts here but I’m assuming I understand overall what this topic is about… there’s a great chusheve GYE member here that has in his link a quote repeated 3X something about stopping to fantasize… and I think it’s a very key point for masturbation as well. And once we realize that we understand that to break free from all lustful behavior is really through that- Controlling the thoughts. All other factors with filters and everything if they don’t change ur thought patterns they don’t work long term. Yes, by getting a filter sometimes it can change our thought patterns for example like knowing it’s not accessible etc. but the truth is it all boils down to our thoughts. So I think it would be a good idea for the goal to be to focus on how can I work on my mind..
1- to not have a drive to mast. 
2- to remember the clarity in why I don’t want to masturbate 
3- to not dwell on lustful thoughts. all these are one of a few major shifts in the mind when implemented which will most likely help a lot. 

I just wanna share what has helped me a lot and hope it will help everyone else. 
I took a paper and over the Course of a few days I added all the possible contributing mental factors to why my battle is difficult.. 

then I created affirmations based on all those factors… which has helped me tremendously. That’s why we created the self talk program. however it works best when one creates affirmations based on their own situation. 
“Distancing and removing triggers is only bringing the door closer..Changing the insides and our nature is the key to get in.” 

“Human connection can help every sort of struggle” 

If anyone would like to reach me I’d love to help out! 
anonymouslyhappy111@gmail.com

Break free the easy way using the self-talk method!
https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/378128-Captain--Shtarkemotionals-Secret90Day-Challenge

Check out this thread with packed Insight for every person at every stage! 
https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/1-Break-Free/376994-%E2%80%9CShtark%E2%80%9D-insight-that-may-make-you-%E2%80%9Cemotional%E2%80%9D-%29

Re: OivedElokim-I’ll never give up 21 May 2022 21:46 #381005

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Shtarkandemotional wrote on 20 May 2022 15:38:
I haven’t read all the posts here but I’m assuming I understand overall what this topic is about… there’s a great chusheve GYE member here that has in his link a quote repeated 3X something about stopping to fantasize… and I think it’s a very key point for masturbation as well. And once we realize that we understand that to break free from all lustful behavior is really through that- Controlling the thoughts. All other factors with filters and everything if they don’t change ur thought patterns they don’t work long term. Yes, by getting a filter sometimes it can change our thought patterns for example like knowing it’s not accessible etc. but the truth is it all boils down to our thoughts. So I think it would be a good idea for the goal to be to focus on how can I work on my mind..
1- to not have a drive to mast. 
2- to remember the clarity in why I don’t want to masturbate 
3- to not dwell on lustful thoughts. all these are one of a few major shifts in the mind when implemented which will most likely help a lot. 

I just wanna share what has helped me a lot and hope it will help everyone else. 
I took a paper and over the Course of a few days I added all the possible contributing mental factors to why my battle is difficult.. 

then I created affirmations based on all those factors… which has helped me tremendously. That’s why we created the self talk program. however it works best when one creates affirmations based on their own situation. 

And yet, for some people, it's even more important  to work through chapter 6 of the Flight2Freedom program.

the simplest way to lose weight should be to fast until you hit the magical number. Unfortunately, that's just not the reality. If you want to be successful, you have to have a better game plan then "just stop".

I would recommend the F2F program to anyone who is looking for tools in motivation, building a plan, understanding what your cues are and dealing with emotional triggers and much much more.
Check out My Thread and The Truth

(עשה רצונו כרצונך (אבות,ב:ד

Feel free to email me  wilnevergiveupgye@gmail.com

Re: OivedElokim-I’ll never give up 22 May 2022 02:50 #381011

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Hakolhevel wrote on 20 May 2022 03:52:
Maybe im the odd one out here, but if I don't watch porn, I don't masturbate.

On another note. From what ive seen, those who are successful in cutting out porn do so with the help of filters, though mostly its internal work, because if you really want it, you will find it.

I'm sure there are many people like you, and consider yourself lucky because of it. But for many others, that is not the case. In my case, the struggle of masturbation continued for years despite being completely free of watching pornography, and this was because of continued vivid fantasizing about specific things I saw in earlier years. So for those like me, they have to know that until they remove both pornography AND fantasizing from their life, they will have struggles. Is it hard? Yes. Is it doable? Yes; I myself did it and I NEVER thought it would be possible.
As long as you keep fantasizing, you will never be able to stop masturbating.

As
long as you keep fantasizing, you will never be able to stop masturbating.

As
long as you keep fantasizing, you will never be able to stop masturbating.

Re: OivedElokim-I’ll never give up 25 May 2022 23:07 #381197

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Not making a lot of progress lately...Made a deal today with a friend to pay him $10 any time I masturbate this week. Hope that'll get things moving...
For the background to my name- see Tanya פרק טו.
My old thread
My current thread 
Last Edit: 26 May 2022 03:34 by OivedElokim.

Re: OivedElokim-I’ll never give up 27 Jun 2022 03:28 #382487

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It's been a rough month. In the past weeks I have watched porn on multiple occasions, the last one roughly a week ago. I kept masturbating despite the knas, reasoning that it was worth it to buy the pleasure. Masturbation is as routine and essential to me as showering or brushing my teeth, a ubiquitous part of my life. It is my stress reliever and my comfort for when I'm feeling down-which is very often. I can't envision life without it.
As far as porn goes-I dream about it daily. It is less accessible to me due to my devices being filtered, and certain circumstances have made it even less accessible this week. 
I'm generally depressed and despondent. Don't have the motivation to fight, though I know that ultimately I will pay a price for my indulgence, especially in the case of porn. 
I'm not looking for advice or criticism, constructive or otherwise. I'm not ready for that yet. Just wanted to let you guys know that I'm still alive, and thus-there is a small glimmer of hope, that one day I'll die as a free, happy man...

Despondently yours-
OivedElokim
For the background to my name- see Tanya פרק טו.
My old thread
My current thread 

Re: OivedElokim-I’ll never give up 27 Jun 2022 03:50 #382488

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OivedElokim wrote on 27 Jun 2022 03:28:
It's been a rough month. In the past weeks I have watched porn on multiple occasions, the last one roughly a week ago. I kept masturbating despite the knas, reasoning that it was worth it to buy the pleasure. Masturbation is as routine and essential to me as showering or brushing my teeth, a ubiquitous part of my life. It is my stress reliever and my comfort for when I'm feeling down-which is very often. I can't envision life without it.
As far as porn goes-I dream about it daily. It is less accessible to me due to my devices being filtered, and certain circumstances have made it even less accessible this week. 
I'm generally depressed and despondent. Don't have the motivation to fight, though I know that ultimately I will pay a price for my indulgence, especially in the case of porn. 
I'm not looking for advice or criticism, constructive or otherwise. I'm not ready for that yet. Just wanted to let you guys know that I'm still alive, and thus-there is a small glimmer of hope, that one day I'll die as a free, happy man...

Despondently yours-
OivedElokim

One day you’ll die live as a free, happy man!
My Story---------Dov Quotes




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Re: OivedElokim-I’ll never give up 27 Jun 2022 07:10 #382495

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Thanks for checking in with us, and yourself!

Just wondering, with the $10, do you pay it afterwards or before? Meaning, maybe it would make a difference if when you want to, you take the money and put it in an envelope for your friend, and then go ahead and...

Have a beautiful day!!
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