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Can I just start by giving in once a week?
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TOPIC: Can I just start by giving in once a week? 283 Views

Can I just start by giving in once a week? 01 Nov 2020 20:36 #356961

  • NMI36
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Shalom Uvrachah, my holy brothers,

What does the Oilam think of the following plan: maybe I can just limit my Hotzoas Zera to just once a week. Eventually, I can do it every two weeks, and so on until I am totally free. The thing is, how will I know when to move up? I look forward to your suggestions, my brothers, and may Hashem protect you,

NMI36

Re: Can I just start by giving in once a week? 01 Nov 2020 21:39 #356964

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Welcome! May your stay here be with hatzlacha and amazingly rapid growth!

A while ago a fellow asked a similar question. He asked that since he's struggling with both masturbation and pornography, should he focus on one at a time. In my opinion your question is inquiring about the same point. Here is my response last time, I believe it is just as applicable to your query.

"Grant400" post=356306 date=1602816669 catid=19

The way I understand it is like DoingTeshuva so aptly touched upon.

The foundation to all of these desires whether it's porn, images, ogling women in the street, fantasizing, masturbation, arousal of any kind etc. is lust. Lusting is what triggers all of these outcomes.

All of the ways a person acts out are all symptoms of the primary problem. Lusting. If a person addresses solely the symptoms he will remain in a constant uphill battle his whole life.

He can say, I'll work on porn for a year, or masturbation, and move on, but in my experience it is shortsighted. As long as one indulges in any of these areas he is trying to quench his thirst for lust. As long as his lust is being fed and teased it will remain alive and kicking, and will beg for satisfaction in all areas.

I'm not saying it's not possible to be porn free and still masturbate or vice versa, but the root of the problem is still there and will make it more difficult in all areas.

I found that when I tried to work in specific areas only it was practically impossible. When faced with triggers in the areas I "allowed" myself in would inevitably eventually crumble in the face of temptation.

I was a movie adict who would never dream of living without my beloved actors and producers of "harmless" movies, but after stopping because it was out of control I realized like the GYE handbook says, that a huge portion of my excessive constant lusting was triggered by short intimate scenes or an immodestly dressed actor. I didn't even begin to understand the impact it had on totally "irrelevant" other areas of sexual desire.

So what I'm saying is, in my opinion/ experience, going cold turkey in all areas is technically easier than constantly stimulating and inciting your desire and trying to keep it in check.

So to answer your question. You have a lust problem. It manifests itself in many areas including porn and masturbation, but at the same time each symptom i.e. p & m, create a desire for the other porning begs for masturbation and masturbation asks for pornography.

Basically they are independent yet connected at the same time. So each one must be worked on individually, but the effects they have on the other cannot be ignored.

Hatzlacha!

                                  Grant

The above was my original post.

So to answer your question. In my opinion it only makes the battle harder for 2 reasons. First, like I wrote above, that as long as your lust is being fed it will continue to be hungry which makes it more difficult. Second, by allowing "permitted" masturbation you are not training yourself to live without sexual indulgence. You may be minimizing your acting out through sheer willpower but you will still remain an addict.

                                  Grant
Last Edit: 01 Nov 2020 21:41 by Grant400.

Re: Can I just start by giving in once a week? 01 Nov 2020 22:02 #356967

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There is a mehalech of permitting "windows" for masturbation (not for pornography) which is endorsed by Rabbonim and professionals, with the understanding that the goal is to completely stop, and that the individual is accountable to someone else during this "project".

Obviously this is tried after trying other mehalchim of completely stopping.
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Re: Can I just start by giving in once a week? 01 Nov 2020 22:16 #356970

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NMI36 wrote on 01 Nov 2020 20:36:
Shalom Uvrachah, my holy brothers,

What does the Oilam think of the following plan: maybe I can just limit my Hotzoas Zera to just once a week. Eventually, I can do it every two weeks, and so on until I am totally free. The thing is, how will I know when to move up? I look forward to your suggestions, my brothers, and may Hashem protect you,

NMI36

I would be interested in hearing  why you want to do such a plan?
Where did thsi idea come from?

Re: Can I just start by giving in once a week? 01 Nov 2020 23:17 #356973

  • doingtshuva
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NMI36 wrote on 01 Nov 2020 20:36:
Shalom Uvrachah, my holy brothers,

What does the Oilam think of the following plan: maybe I can just limit my Hotzoas Zera to just once a week. Eventually, I can do it every two weeks, and so on until I am totally free. The thing is, how will I know when to move up? I look forward to your suggestions, my brothers, and may Hashem protect you,

NMI36

Welcome NMI36,
​I loved your question, as it reminds me my early days on GYE.
Lets try together to understand better your question.
You are trying to say, I will fight and stay strong for a week, and then in return I'll have the opportunity (allowance) to masturbate.
​In other words I'll work hard to be allowed to sin. 
Looks more like a Mivtza, 1 week clean = 1 time masturbation.
What will happen if you stayed clean for 2 weeks, will you masturbate twice??
What I'm trying to say is that when we understand that Porn, Masturbation and Lust are all our enemy that destroys our life. You don't look for a Heter.
Your goal and wish should be stay clean for the rest of your life.
But we are so use to porn and masturbation that we cant believe that we are giving it up in forever!
We are allowed to fall, cause we are human, but not to give in.

I can share with you how I set up my goals, first I focus on today, and sometimes on a specific hour. I got to learn that sometimes you can go clean for many weeks and other times I have it hard to stay clean even for 1 day.
So why are you sure that you'll be able to stay clean for 1 week?
Therefore I suggest that you should read the GYE Handbook, get on the 90 day chart, and focus on TODAY.
Today I would like to be clean pure and holy.
Tomorrow will deal tomorrow.

In my eyes having set up a time to masturbate will lead to a disaster.
Its not like being on a diet and you say on Shabbos I eat cake.

How about trying to be clean for 1 week without giving in?

To end, if you are masturbating on daily basis and you are trying to reduce your masturbation to 1 a week, that's GREAT.
But for me, this method never worked.

Hope to hear from you.



  
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Re: Can I just start by giving in once a week? 02 Nov 2020 06:57 #356989

First of all, Welcome! This is the place to be.

@Doingteshuva, very clear response and that is exactly the point.

I just want to acknowledge the thought process that leads us to thinking that way.

For me at least, and I am sure many can relate, the thought of going the rest of my life without my fix was just impossible. Sorry but that wasn't happening, there was no way I was going to be able to go more then a few weeks.

So I told myself, great well stick it out for three weeks and then do what you have to do then do another three weeks. After all, once or twice every three weeks is surely better than every other day multiple times.

So here is the mistake. You don't have to be clean for the rest of your life in order to be clean today.

Wohwah, what does that mean?

What it means is simply exactly what you are trying to do but with a different attitude. The point is to not freak out about missing our fix, so that's what we need to address. The point is not to make sure to get our fix, rather to not have a meltdown about not getting it.

This is what we call "taking it one day at a time". It's a whole sugya but the idea is that we don't have to freak out about tomorrow or next week or next year. We are not meant to fix yesterday either. All we have to focus on is what we need to do today to stay clean today. Focusing on the moment strangely enables most people to accumulate many more clean days, one day at a time.

As was mentioned before, focusing on planning a time to act out is just that, focusing on whey you are going to get your next fix. The goal however, is to learn how to live without it. I know this sounds impossible but as they say here "there have been no reported deaths on account of not giving in". It's a concept that may take time to adjust to but the facts are that you really and truly can live without it. Not only that, your life will be happier and more productive as well.

I would recommend reading through @Starting's threads, 
There Must Be a Way and Recent Posts that Really Resonate.

You have to ask yourself, why are you putting yourself through all this agony? 
If you don't have an answer, you better figure  one out, until you do, the road to failure will be very close.
The point of all this is not to put ourselves through endless suffering for the sake of Heaven and to reap reward, I'm sorry but we're in it for a much better reason than that.

I don't know about you but my life is unbearable when I let my desires consume me. I can't live with myself and this alternative is way worse than anything I will have to go through to keep clean.

We are not suffering being clean, we are attempting to live a pleasant and enjoyable life. The reward that we will get from Hashem will be for all the things that we will accomplish now that our lives have become something worth living. Trust me the reward for that is far greater then suffering l'shem shamayim. Hashem doesn't want us to suffer, he wants us to be productive and overcome the things that get in the way. This is just one of those things that get in the way. We need to overcome it not purely for the sake of overcoming it but also for the sake of living a productive meaningful life of doing good and becoming closer to Hashem. 

Sorry about the megilah, I hope I was clear, I just needed to get all that off my chest. Thanks for listening if you did, I hope this helps.

I would love to hear your thoughts. Please keep us posted.

All the best,
Wilnevergiveup
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Last Edit: 02 Nov 2020 07:53 by wilnevergiveup.

Re: Can I just start by giving in once a week? 02 Nov 2020 20:38 #357008

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Welcome

Your question came up a few months ago when I was new here and I attaching a post that was written at the time which I found helpful especially in my early days. 
(thanks wilnevergiveup) 
wilnevergiveup wrote on 11 Jun 2020 05:43:
Hey @bentorah613, 

Welcome to the forum! Iy"h you will soon join the ranks of the many successful and growing people here.

I am just curious, why someone in recovery would want to have a noncommittal day pop in so often and ruin everything...

I assume that your logic is this "I cant commit to too much so one day on then I have one day to do whatever the heck I want..."
"Then I will white knuckle it for two days until I get that prize for abstaining..."
So your goal is basically to reach a point where you can do all those things that you are trying to stop doing?

The most common mehalech here at GYE is "take it one day at a time".
What that means is that you don't think about what is going to be tomorrow or what happened yesterday. You ask HaShem to pleas give you today, and you do everything that you need to do today to be free.

Don't worry about tomorrow, isn't to "push it off to tomorrow", rather not to be overwhelmed by the future.

Its a long process, training ourselves not to NEED the pleasure, but that is the ultimate goal. Its not that I will stick it out because I will be able to do it later rather at least for a day a hour or even a minute we try to tell ourselves (and maybe even feel it a little too) that right now the pleasure is not something that I need.

Sorry about the ramble, I hope I did some good, and if not then just ignore me...

Hatzlachah! May you find lots of success on your journey!

Wilnevergiveup

Hatzlocho and looking forward to having you around
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