it is just so amazing how makeup fools people on porn/internet there is a woman who i am so enamored by her face and beauty it just confuses me how  can a woman be so   pretty,then i recently saw her without makeup and i thought ,"huh?!" 
there is a certain race of who i am so enamored by their beauty and i have a problem not googleing images of them , then i saw before makeup and after makeup  pictures and i was really shocked as well .also this particular race has a custom to give their daughters a  16th birthday present  ,what youll ask?plastic surgery! and i saw the before and after pictures of the plastic surgery,uch. it reminds me of the parsha of jewish men , tzadikim who in time of war saw a beautiful woman and took her home , but first had to let her cry for home 7(?)days and no makeup , nails grew long (without nail polish)  hair disheveled and we ask the yid do you still want her? and many times the yid would change his mind.
i havent seen this anywhere , but i think part of gehinom for looking at forbidden things will be that they bring sleepy to a room and behind that door is one of those beautys that sleepy ogled over, and their gonna open the door  and  this women is going to look disgusting and maybe a little monstorous from all  the evil and bad midos she had  that sleepy overlooked due to her makeup and false beauty and this ugly thing is going to say "sleepy! "and try  to hug him , and sleepy is going to be running away like who knows what screaming "get her away from me! dont touch me!"and sleepy is going to be running around the universe with this mius'kiet chasing him, itll be worse than the worse nightmare and horror movie!Hashem yishmireynu!
Sleepy!!!! W a a a k e   u u p p  ! ! ! !

sleepy wrote on 28 Jun 2022 07:46:

Excellent post. It's a pasuk we all know: שקר החן והבל היופי.

I'd say few people ever realize/reflect on this truth that you've written here.

Even fewer will remember it and being able to act on it the next time they start fantasizing or looking at these women with makeup on.

Yes, and like chazal say אשה חמת מלא צואה ופיה מלא דם.

But now that you brought it up, I would ask a question that always brothered me. What difference does it make to me who she really is etc, the bottom line is that I get pleasure from her present look. And the same goes for what is always said in regards to porn, that it's all fake. How does that change the fact that in reality I have pleasure viewing it?
(I I am not asking in regards to how veiwing porn effects our view of women, and marriage etc in a false way. I am asking purely in regards to dealing with the struggle of veiwing porn in and of itself)

Great point Sleepy. I would say to @5Uu80*cdwB#^ that even though I realized it, but I have never thought about it or reflected on it.

It may depend on each person's case. But at least by me, a big part of the Yetzer Hara of looking at pictures like this is imagining it to be real. I have little issue with looking at pictures of dressed women on the computer, but when I see them in real life, even just looking at the face can cause hirhurim. Thinking how everything is 100% fake and there is nothing real there I think may be a good idea. Thanks sleepy.

Up up wrote on 28 Jun 2022 22:47:

i cant answer that but all i know is that that particular woman was so attractive in my eyes i just couldnt keep my eyes off her , but now that isaw the real her , i havent googled her. 

It also speaks about this by Yosef and Eshes potifar.

@up up i think that it is because visual imagery triggers our imagination, making us fantasize about something beyond the dots of light/pixels on the screen. So if we imagine it is white geese, or an unattractive person, that removes the fantasy and it removes the pleasure.

Up up wrote on 28 Jun 2022 22:47:

Hey Up up. I don't really understand the question. It makes all the difference who she really is. Is she truth, or is she a fake mirage? What more important question could there be? Once you internalize that something is false, you can utterly reject it. Pornography is FAKE. Of course we should be disgusted by it. It's falsehood!
We have to train ourselves to desire nothing in the world but truth and to be utterly disgusted by falsehood. See Chazon Ish Emunah u'Bitachon who discusses this idea at length.

@sleepy and @franklee
I see what you're saying. Physical pleasure is also very much rooted in our minds. And therefore when our minds have a "unappetising" feeling towards a certain physical pleasure, we will have less pleasure. For that reason when you saw a certain person in not such a appetising look, you attraction went down. Same can happen with food that's presented in a unappetising fashion. Or if someone where to once a eat a certain food and it was sour. Etc.

And thats the eitza of the Torah with a yfas toar, present her in a unappetising fashion for some time, and chances are that you'll lose the attraction.

However, practically this works when 1) you actually saw a certain women, 2) in a unappetising way.
But in regards to porn in general, I would have to use my mind alone to contemplate that it's all fake. And the problem is that 1) i don't have the actual physical sight, and 2) im not ingraining in myself an unappetising feeling, rather convincing myself that it's fake. Unless I will try -at the time of veiwing porn- to imagine every person in any given pic/video as really ugly. Not so practical...
And that's my question @5Uu80*cdwB#^.

It may be that the ultimate truth is that the mind on its own can control everything. And like the different stories of tzadikim that controlled their physical feelings of pain etc through their mind.
There are also the methods like Sarno, that gives a regular people a practical way to control certain physical ailments through their mind.
However practically speaking has anyone had success using a mind method to control their lust?
If yes, please share how, Thanks

I have had success in using this method.

First off, though, I don't have to use it often, because I guard my eyes very carefully. If somehow I nevertheless see something I shouldn't, I try to simply move on and don't look back. If it is too strong to move on from, I try to move on again. If I still can't, I will use this technique. It has certainly helped me in the past.

5Uu80*cdwB#^ wrote on 03 Jul 2022 20:12:

My struggles with lust are partially rooted in the fantasy to begin with. So for me its just telling myself that the fakeness is actually fake which does nothing for me.
​Secondly, my lust exists in my head (almost) as much as it does in my eyes. So even though i place a strong emphasis on "guarding my eyes" i still lust plenty and the gimmicks and mind tricks dont work...

Just sharing my experience 

i wasnt used to the new site look, but getting used to it and it really looks nice .thank you for all your hard work.

Shmuel wrote on 03 Jul 2022 21:19:

I hear you. For years for me it was all in the mind, too, and certainly so after I began guarding my eyes carefully.
I don't think that reflecting on the fact that fantasies are fake is a gimmick though. In any case, in terms of that which goes on the mind, I have experienced that the best tool is not thinking about how it's fake though, but rather learning to just move on. A lustful thought comes? Don't engage it. Don't reject it. Don't feel sad or happy. Good or bad. Don't check to make sure it's gone or still there in 5 and 10 minutes. Make it as inconsequential as all of the other millions of thoughts that cross our mind and our brain filters without any second thoughts by simply moving on. Nope, it's not easy at first. But, in my experience, lust in the mind stick around because we keep thinking about it. We have to decide to simply move on. Wow, a thought of lust! Okay, moving on with my day....
This paragraph contains the gist of how I was able to break free after years of lusting in my mind. I learned to simply move on and not react to or engage lustful thoughts, not to feel emotions about them, and not to check back on them. We're human! We'll have thoughts. Our job is to just move on.

wow, i just started the flight to freedom , previously i just scanned it and thought meh, but now i find that it could really make a change ,bezras Hashem.Thank you for all who are responsible and thank you Rabbi Shafier  who explains the concepts very clear and whio i feel is a very accepting person.

i just want to say that the flight2freedom is a great program , before i started i used to entertain the thought of putting an aushwitz sign over my toilet bowl that says arbeit macht frei to commerate the millions that were destroyed there R"L, now after  doing the flight2freedom i want to make a sign gye macht frei!
thank you Hashem! and thank you gye!