Welcome, Guest

Wake Sleepy up!
(0 viewing) 
Welcome to our forum! Introduce yourself here (anonymously, of course) and get a warm welcome from the rest of the community!

TOPIC: Wake Sleepy up! 37434 Views

Re: Wake Sleepy up! 12 May 2022 21:09 #380674

  • Lustfull
  • Current streak: 2 days
  • OFFLINE
  • Junior Boarder
  • Posts: 20
  • Karma: 4
Is it an assumption, or is it a fact?
It seems (to me) that you do not want to follow the Torah (Muser etc.) or psychology. 
The topic has been locked.

Re: Wake Sleepy up! 13 May 2022 11:31 #380691

  • Hashem Help Me
  • Current streak: 2232 days
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 3384
Sleepy, everyone is entitled to their opinions here, including you. However, oftentimes, sh*tos are formed by subconscious negi'us that one does not recognize. That may or may not be the case here. I would like to comment on two things you mention. I may be completely off in my thinking as well....

Therapy - Old fashioned therapy definitely had concerns for shomrei Torah U'mitzvos vis a vis yiddishkeit. The present day therapies are radically different. For example cognitive behavioral therapy is endorsed by many Gedoloim, Rabbonim and mechanchim. It has many yesodos from Torah and Mussar, and to the best of my feeble knowledge has no "misnagdim". Many yeshivos have actually encouraged rebbeim to take a course or two to learn how to use CBT. There is no apikorsus, liberalism, social understandings or the like.  Just plain seichel hayashar. Many generations of "kluge yidden/tzaddikim" have been doing CBT without it having an official title.

Partner - As scary as it is to make that first phone call, almost nothing can be as beneficial as a chaver in this issue (by the way, the Noam Elimelech suggests telling a chaver about these things - look in Tzetel Katan). It literally saved me. I am forever indebted to "One_Day_At_A_Time" for reaching out and making himself available for me. Nobody here will judge you or beat you up. Please reconsider.
Feel free to contact me at michelgelner@gmail.com

My threads: Lessons Learned: guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/335248-Lessons-Learned

                    My Story and G-d Bless GYE: guardyoureyes.com/forum/17-Balei-Battims-Forum/303036-My-story-and-G-d-bless-GYE
The topic has been locked.

Re: Wake Sleepy up! 13 May 2022 14:13 #380696

  • sleepy
  • OFFLINE
  • Banned
  • Posts: 1487
  • Karma: -8
itisfeelinggreat wrote on 12 May 2022 21:09:
Is it an assumption, or is it a fact?
It seems (to me) that you do not want to follow the Torah (Muser etc.) or psychology. 

its my life experience in a lot of cases , things or people i dont respect, justifilably or otherwise, do not have a positive influence in my life so why waste precious time going down such a road, let me go down the road that we are promised will work if we work it. 
now for a disclaimer:i do not belittle therapists or people who use and benefit from  them, kol hakavod, you have my blessings(unless the theripist is a woman) i just posted that no one should suggest to me theripy or phscologist things to me, im not interested wasting my time  reading them and thinking blah blah blah.
just curios, i understand your comment that you see that im not interested to follow physcology,i pretty much said that outright, but where are you inferring that i dont want to follow the musar way ,i pretty much said that i DO want to follow the musar way. are you writing sharp "ah bee" to write sharp?
For an explanation on my choice of username and avatar see my first post
The topic has been locked.

Re: Wake Sleepy up! 13 May 2022 14:17 #380697

  • sleepy
  • OFFLINE
  • Banned
  • Posts: 1487
  • Karma: -8
sleepy wrote on 13 May 2022 14:13:

itisfeelinggreat wrote on 12 May 2022 21:09:
Is it an assumption, or is it a fact?
It seems (to me) that you do not want to follow the Torah (Muser etc.) or psychology. 

its my life experience in a lot of cases , things or people i dont respect, justifilably or otherwise, do not have a positive influence in my life so why waste precious time going down such a road, let me go down the road that we are promised will work if we work it. 
now for a disclaimer:i do not belittle therapists or people who use and benefit from  them, kol hakavod, you have my blessings(unless the theripist is a woman) i just posted that no one should suggest to me theripy or phscologist things to me, im not interested wasting my time  reading them and thinking blah blah blah.
just curios, i understand your comment that you see that im not interested to follow physcology,i pretty much said that outright, but where are you inferring that i dont want to follow the musar way ,i pretty much said that i DO want to follow the musar way. are you writing sharp "ah bee" to write sharp?

or are you saying ,"humpf, if someone doesnt want to follow physcology,MUST BE that he doesnt want to follow the Torah or musar way as well, must be..."
and to that i reply respectfuly, -" huh?!"
For an explanation on my choice of username and avatar see my first post
Last Edit: 13 May 2022 14:25 by sleepy.
The topic has been locked.

Re: Wake Sleepy up! 13 May 2022 15:23 #380700

  • Shmuel
  • Current streak: 220 days
  • OFFLINE
  • Gold Boarder
  • Posts: 236
  • Karma: 11
sleepy wrote on 13 May 2022 14:13:

itisfeelinggreat wrote on 12 May 2022 21:09:
Is it an assumption, or is it a fact?
It seems (to me) that you do not want to follow the Torah (Muser etc.) or psychology. 

its my life experience in a lot of cases , things or people i dont respect, justifilably or otherwise, do not have a positive influence in my life so why waste precious time going down such a road, let me go down the road that we are promised will work if we work it. 
now for a disclaimer:i do not belittle therapists or people who use and benefit from  them, kol hakavod, you have my blessings(unless the theripist is a woman) i just posted that no one should suggest to me theripy or phscologist things to me, im not interested wasting my time  reading them and thinking blah blah blah.
just curios, i understand your comment that you see that im not interested to follow physcology,i pretty much said that outright, but where are you inferring that i dont want to follow the musar way ,i pretty much said that i DO want to follow the musar way. are you writing sharp "ah bee" to write sharp?

Are you "working it"?

Did you not find ANY torah guidance on this site?
The topic has been locked.

Re: Wake Sleepy up! 13 May 2022 15:25 #380701

  • Shmuel
  • Current streak: 220 days
  • OFFLINE
  • Gold Boarder
  • Posts: 236
  • Karma: 11
 will work if we work it. 

Pretty sure this is a direct quote from AA...
The topic has been locked.

Re: Wake Sleepy up! 13 May 2022 16:18 #380704

  • Lustfull
  • Current streak: 2 days
  • OFFLINE
  • Junior Boarder
  • Posts: 20
  • Karma: 4
or are you saying ,"humpf, if someone doesnt want to follow physcology,MUST BE that he doesnt want to follow the Torah or musar way as well, must be..."
and to that i reply respectfuly, -" huh?!"

You are smart. You almost Chapt what I meant to say.
I will explain it again in a diffrent way.
If a Diyan Rav or Rabbi is telling you that you should psychologically work on addiction, then this is what the Torah wants from you at that moment. "Torah Loi Bashumiyam," someone who has Horua to Pasken god says whatever he is going to Pasken this is the Halacha. Of course, we are talking from Erlichia Diyen. If not, no one would want to be a Diyan because they would be afraid of Pasken Shales. Now to you, my friend, a Diyan that understands addiction will tell you to use psychological methods if nothing else works for you (it seems to me that you are in that category). If you do not follow such guidance from the Diyan, you do not want to follow the Torah; you want to follow your belief in what you think is true. You want the Diyan should tell you what to do according to your opinion; that does not call Following the Torah.
The topic has been locked.

Re: Wake Sleepy up! 15 May 2022 14:04 #380727

  • iwillmanage
  • OFFLINE
  • Junior Boarder
  • Posts: 20
  • Karma: 2

Hi Sleepy. I saw your first post, you say you call yourself sleepy because you want to get out of the slumber you're in. It reminded me of a moshel I thought I'd share, I think it's got a lesson we can all learn from.

Yossel had to get from Minsk to Pinsk so he goes to the local tavern, drags out Ivan the wagon driver and they start their journey. It's the middle of the winter snowing heavily and it soon starts getting dark, so they stop for the night and huddle under blankets inside the wagon. Ivan is freezing. He reaches into his pocket for a bottle of vodka to warm his insides, takes a swig and he's out, snoring loudly. Some time later he wakes up and sees that it's still dark, he's still freezing, so again he takes a big slurp from his bottle and he's instantly asleep. After a while he wakes up again and it's still dark and snowing. 'What a long night this is' he thinks. He's only got a few sips left of vodka, too bad, he licks it up and he's soon fast asleep. When he wakes up again and it's still dark and cold, he turns to Yossel and asks, 'What's going on here? Why's this night so long? When will it be morning so we can get going?'    'You idiot!' says Yossel. 'It's no long night! You know what you've done? You slept right through the night and the following day, then woke up the next night, had a drink and again slept right through the day. You did that the following night as well, now we're on the fourth night and could have long been in Pinsk. You were so deep asleep that I couldn't wake you however hard I tried! Now let's just get moving…'

The point is, we need to be alert to the times and things that can pull us out of the slumber, and not just sleep right through them and wake up after the next fall and think 'oh what a long hard night this is'. This might involve thinking over what has and what hasn't worked for ourselves already, listening to what has and what hasn't worked for others, being open to new possibilities and then acting accordingly. If we do that we might find that this night is really shorter then we thought it was. Otherwise we're pretty much like that Ivan…

The topic has been locked.

Re: Wake Sleepy up! 15 May 2022 17:25 #380735

  • sleepy
  • OFFLINE
  • Banned
  • Posts: 1487
  • Karma: -8
iwillmanage wrote on 15 May 2022 14:04:

Hi Sleepy. I saw your first post, you say you call yourself sleepy because you want to get out of the slumber you're in. It reminded me of a moshel I thought I'd share, I think it's got a lesson we can all learn from.

Yossel had to get from Minsk to Pinsk so he goes to the local tavern, drags out Ivan the wagon driver and they start their journey. It's the middle of the winter snowing heavily and it soon starts getting dark, so they stop for the night and huddle under blankets inside the wagon. Ivan is freezing. He reaches into his pocket for a bottle of vodka to warm his insides, takes a swig and he's out, snoring loudly. Some time later he wakes up and sees that it's still dark, he's still freezing, so again he takes a big slurp from his bottle and he's instantly asleep. After a while he wakes up again and it's still dark and snowing. 'What a long night this is' he thinks. He's only got a few sips left of vodka, too bad, he licks it up and he's soon fast asleep. When he wakes up again and it's still dark and cold, he turns to Yossel and asks, 'What's going on here? Why's this night so long? When will it be morning so we can get going?'    'You idiot!' says Yossel. 'It's no long night! You know what you've done? You slept right through the night and the following day, then woke up the next night, had a drink and again slept right through the day. You did that the following night as well, now we're on the fourth night and could have long been in Pinsk. You were so deep asleep that I couldn't wake you however hard I tried! Now let's just get moving…'

The point is, we need to be alert to the times and things that can pull us out of the slumber, and not just sleep right through them and wake up after the next fall and think 'oh what a long hard night this is'. This might involve thinking over what has and what hasn't worked for ourselves already, listening to what has and what hasn't worked for others, being open to new possibilities and then acting accordingly. If we do that we might find that this night is really shorter then we thought it was. Otherwise we're pretty much like that Ivan…


sorry ,i missed your point
For an explanation on my choice of username and avatar see my first post
The topic has been locked.

Re: Wake Sleepy up! 15 May 2022 17:44 #380736

  • sleepy
  • OFFLINE
  • Banned
  • Posts: 1487
  • Karma: -8
Lustfull wrote on 13 May 2022 16:18:


or are you saying ,"humpf, if someone doesnt want to follow physcology,MUST BE that he doesnt want to follow the Torah or musar way as well, must be..."
and to that i reply respectfuly, -" huh?!"

You are smart. You almost Chapt what I meant to say.
I will explain it again in a diffrent way.
If a Diyan Rav or Rabbi is telling you that you should psychologically work on addiction, then this is what the Torah wants from you at that moment. "Torah Loi Bashumiyam," someone who has Horua to Pasken god says whatever he is going to Pasken this is the Halacha. Of course, we are talking from Erlichia Diyen. If not, no one would want to be a Diyan because they would be afraid of Pasken Shales. Now to you, my friend, a Diyan that understands addiction will tell you to use psychological methods if nothing else works for you (it seems to me that you are in that category). If you do not follow such guidance from the Diyan, you do not want to follow the Torah; you want to follow your belief in what you think is true. You want the Diyan should tell you what to do according to your opinion; that does not call Following the Torah.

thank you for explaining . it seems that youre assuming that i am in the category of "nothing else works" if so i agree . but i am in the category of "something else does work, and has worked in my past to keep me clean for 11 years" , hence my desire to use those things again. and even now in my up and down battles i see that Torah ,Musar etc. does help , "AY", youll say," that you fall some times so that cant be a good mihalech," so ill answer back to you that if someone takes the physcology derech, FYI, he ALSO falls. so the pircha is not a pircha.
thank you
For an explanation on my choice of username and avatar see my first post
Last Edit: 15 May 2022 17:45 by sleepy.
The topic has been locked.

Re: Wake Sleepy up! 15 May 2022 17:51 #380738

  • sleepy
  • OFFLINE
  • Banned
  • Posts: 1487
  • Karma: -8
Shmuel wrote on 13 May 2022 15:25:


 will work if we work it. 

Pretty sure this is a direct quote from AA...


Eh, sooooooooo?
For an explanation on my choice of username and avatar see my first post
The topic has been locked.

Re: Wake Sleepy up! 15 May 2022 18:00 #380739

  • sleepy
  • OFFLINE
  • Banned
  • Posts: 1487
  • Karma: -8
Disclaimer: ive posted that i want to work on my problem using Torah ,Musar etc. and not physcology.
some people have replied generously with Torah /Musar sources ,and beautiful ideas to implament in my mind daily based on Torah etc sources, thank you.
others have challenged my decision and posted posts advising me  to reconsider . to them i thank for their concern ,but feel bad for their waste of time and ink. because that  is not the way i am going. 
i did not post my post to create a debate, just to get  some good wholesome  Torah vitamin ideas .
hatzlacha to all
For an explanation on my choice of username and avatar see my first post
Last Edit: 16 May 2022 04:31 by sleepy.
The topic has been locked.

Re: Wake Sleepy up! 15 May 2022 18:04 #380740

  • Vehkam
  • Current streak: 427 days
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 699
  • Karma: 176
Sleepy. What changed after eleven years? Would like to help you get back to a positive outlook. I read a lot of your original posts and they are more positive. You appear to be suffering now. I hope I am not being presumptuous and just want to help redirect the dialogue in a positive direction.

edit- I see that you posted an explanation while I was typing my post.  This was helpful.  
vehkam7@gmail.com

guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/375452-Work-in-progress

The Battle of the Generation by Hillel S. has been a huge help for me.  Message me to find out how you can receive a free copy.



some of the experiences I write about may make it easier to identify me.  This is ok.  I trust that if anyone discovers my identity they will keep it to themselves.  If you do realize that you  know me, I am completely comfortable and welcome you acknowledging me and my struggle in person.
Last Edit: 15 May 2022 18:22 by Vehkam.
The topic has been locked.

Re: Wake Sleepy up! 15 May 2022 19:11 #380741

  • Shmuel
  • Current streak: 220 days
  • OFFLINE
  • Gold Boarder
  • Posts: 236
  • Karma: 11
sleepy wrote on 15 May 2022 17:44:

Lustfull wrote on 13 May 2022 16:18:


or are you saying ,"humpf, if someone doesnt want to follow physcology,MUST BE that he doesnt want to follow the Torah or musar way as well, must be..."
and to that i reply respectfuly, -" huh?!"

You are smart. You almost Chapt what I meant to say.
I will explain it again in a diffrent way.
If a Diyan Rav or Rabbi is telling you that you should psychologically work on addiction, then this is what the Torah wants from you at that moment. "Torah Loi Bashumiyam," someone who has Horua to Pasken god says whatever he is going to Pasken this is the Halacha. Of course, we are talking from Erlichia Diyen. If not, no one would want to be a Diyan because they would be afraid of Pasken Shales. Now to you, my friend, a Diyan that understands addiction will tell you to use psychological methods if nothing else works for you (it seems to me that you are in that category). If you do not follow such guidance from the Diyan, you do not want to follow the Torah; you want to follow your belief in what you think is true. You want the Diyan should tell you what to do according to your opinion; that does not call Following the Torah.

thank you for explaining . it seems that youre assuming that i am in the category of "nothing else works" if so i agree . but i am in the category of "something else does work, and has worked in my past to keep me clean for 11 years" , hence my desire to use those things again. and even now in my up and down battles i see that Torah ,Musar etc. does help , "AY", youll say," that you fall some times so that cant be a good mihalech," so ill answer back to you that if someone takes the physcology derech, FYI, he ALSO falls. so the pircha is not a pircha.
thank you

So what are you looking for now?
Why not use what worked in the past?
The topic has been locked.

Re: Wake Sleepy up! 15 May 2022 19:16 #380742

  • Lustfull
  • Current streak: 2 days
  • OFFLINE
  • Junior Boarder
  • Posts: 20
  • Karma: 4
Hi sleepy. First, I want to apologize if I was too harsh in the post.
Secondly, I feel your pain. It is hard to fight an addiction. I wish you much success in finding the right Torahdigga way. I will be happy to hear that you have found one, and maybe you will be able to help others...
 Thirdly, what has happened now if you have worked for 11 years? Why can't you continue that way? 
The topic has been locked.
Time to create page: 0.64 seconds

Are you sure?

Yes